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Post by whitefang on Jan 17, 2020 10:40:39 GMT -5
To any of you?
What I mean is, have any of you that have or tried to write a song later hear some other song that as far as you know you've never heard before, but it contains elements of one of your songs? Example-----
About 40 or so years ago I conjured up a song I called "Self Pride Stride". I think I posted the lyrics once on the old guitar forum site, but anyway....
I don't really "write" songs as I can neither read or write music,so I jot down the lyrics and have managed after a good many years to keep the music I imagined going with them in my head. Well, last night, while surfing in the MUSIC CHOICE section of my cable TV service, I noticed the opening bars of a song I know I've never heard before were very similar to the foundation of the song I mentioned a bit ago. The tune was called "Cornbread" by an artist known as HAL SINGER, (after the first six seconds of introduction noodling, the stuff I thought of for my song begins)...
Now, like I claimed, I SWEAR I don't remember ever hearing this tune before.... Whitefang
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2020 10:50:02 GMT -5
I write songs easily, however I cannot read music nor do I know that much theory. But that never stopped me from trying. I know a little theory, enough to formulate chord progressions according to the diatonic scale (Do re, me fa, so, la, te, do) in chords. I usually write to a backing track that I create either by my self, or using Jammer Pro or Band In A Box to generate the backing tracks, and then I render them to audio using a recording app and samples or synths. The whole process is simple to me because I have been trying for so long, I did manage to get fairly good at it and the skill to do it is long ingrained in my head (mostly by trial and error).
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Post by jbone on Jan 17, 2020 12:05:33 GMT -5
Well you know it's said, there's nothing new under the sun. 12 notes. Many permutations.
I began hearing the old guys- from the 40's on- in the early 60's. No doubt there was early influence on me. Decades later I began emulating some of what I heard. The blues notes and chord progressions have been building blocks to me. In my 30's I began trying to write songs. I'd have a riff or progression in my head- usually something I'd heard along the way- and at that time in my life I was writing bits of lyrics as I went along. I collected a lot of bits and on nights when I could not sleep I'd get them all out and put them together. Sometimes I'd come up with a song at least on paper. I'd hit a jam and try the new stuff out with the house band if I could. Or I'd sit down with a guitar playing friend and kind of build the bones, and then flesh it out. Usually early on I tried too hard and it would show. I'd be another young white dude trying to be a blues guy. Sometimes I'd hit on something decent. I actually kept some of those works and they have become part of our song list these days.
I don't mind if my stuff is sort of mistaken for a known artist's work. It's in the same idiom. Hopefully not plagiarism! I do work to keep things unique as much as possible, but inspired by things I've heard.
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Post by whitefang on Jan 18, 2020 10:44:56 GMT -5
So, what I gather is that this sort of thing hasn't happened to either of you before. And besides JBONE--- B.B. King settled that "white guy trying to be a blues guy" years ago by slyly inferring that the "blues" isn't a black or white thing. Saying( in effect), "ANYBODY who's been down and out, lost love, can't find love or been hurt and broken hearted or such can sing or play the blues." Also indicating it isn't HOW you sing or play as much as it's WHAT you sing about. Another song writing thing(on topic) is 'bout 15-20 years ago I "wrote" a tune with a chord progression that unwittingly was the one from JONI MITCHELL'S "People's Parties". Whitefang
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2020 13:39:12 GMT -5
B.B. King settled that "white guy trying to be a blues guy" years ago by slyly inferring that the "blues" isn't a black or white thing. Saying( in effect), "ANYBODY who's been down and out, lost love, can't find love or been hurt and broken hearted or such can sing or play the blues." Also indicating it isn't HOW you sing or play as much as it's WHAT you sing about. Yep I was a bricklayer as you know Fangster, I definitely qualify to play Stormy Monday Blues, because I hated my work life as a bricklayer, so it was akin to what the songwriter T Bone Walker meant on that song. He probably was an auto worker, or some form of hard laborer. I hated my work but I had kids so I had to go there.
The only jobs I ever had that I liked was bar-tending in several resort based clubs, one called The Sea Gull Bar, and then Joe Pops bar, both in Ship Bottom NJ. The Sea Gull went belly up a long time ago, Joe Pops is still there.
And then there was 10 years of part time masonry estimating in my own climate controlled shed/office, (12 feet was my commute in the afternoons) That was the best job I ever had. I was salary paid, and whether I worked or not, depending on the availability of new projects I got paid. I was sad to see that one go, those guys were the best employers that I ever had, and they felt like I was an excellent estimator, the best outside help they ever had, they told me.
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Post by whitefang on Jan 19, 2020 11:17:28 GMT -5
T-bone was already a pro performer by the time he was 15, no doubt learning HIS trade at the feet of BLIND LEMON JEFFERSON, an old family friend. It didn't hurt either that both his parents were musicians too. T-Bone played a multitude of instruments. Never did any hard labor(as we know it). But it really doesn't mean anything as there IS no set in stone "prerequisite" for playing or singing the blues. Your hating your job helps, but it would help more if you had NO CHOICE but to have that trade.But regardless, if it made you feel "blue", then that's OK. So, to try to get back on track...... Did you find that ANY of the songs you "wrote" while too, using all that equipment(and learning later), bore any resemblance to some song you heard down the road, but could swear you've never heard before? THAT'S basically( and in the plainest, simplest English I could muster) the question I'm asking. Whitefang
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Post by jbone on Jan 19, 2020 12:01:20 GMT -5
"I began hearing the old guys- from the 40's on- in the early 60's. No doubt there was early influence on me. Decades later I began emulating some of what I heard."
Au contraire Fang. I was saying I DID find that what I'd heard decades before I tied to write my own songs definitely had a bearing on what came out later. In SOME cases.
I wrote one for my wife some years ago and lifted a line from an old one. Wife discovered it recently and we're now trying to decide what to do with it. Change a line or verse? That gets my vote although I didn't see the harm of putting one line in that's in another song.
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Post by whitefang on Jan 20, 2020 11:06:59 GMT -5
If your song's not published and not a noted part of your income I don't see the harm in it. In this(the thread's) case, it would matter only if you had no idea you lifted the line from another tune without realizing it. But lyrics are one thing, the thing here is the music. Like, is any of the music in that tune the same as the music in the song you said you lifted the line from?
Whitefang
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2020 11:20:12 GMT -5
Cord progressions cannot be copyrighted, only words, melody (music), recording, and performance. At least that was the way it was when I was copyrighting everything I wrote.
So if I did a cover tune, I could copyright my performance and my recording of it, but not the words or melody (music).
Here is from a google search of the rules below.
Song Copyright Law Basics
Copyright law explains how to copyright songs. You can copyright music, copyright lyrics, or copyright both. You may copyright a new song or a new version or arrangement of an existing song. The song must be your original work, meaning that it must have been created by you and must show some minimal amount of creativity.
You can’t copyright a song title or a chord progression. If you make an audio recording of your song, you may copyright in the sound recording in addition to your copyright in the song itself.
A music copyright is actually a bundle of separate exclusive rights. When you copyright songs, you have the right to:
Make and distribute copies of the song on sheet music, records, tapes, CDs and certain digital media. You also have the exclusive right to make and distribute the first sound recording of the song. Once the first recording has been distributed, other people can make and distribute additional recordings, but they must obtain a mechanical license for the song and pay you a royalty fee. If someone wants to record the song onto a video or motion picture, they must obtain a synchronization license. Prepare derivative works, including new arrangements. Perform the song and authorize others to perform it. If someone else wants to play your song for an audience, they must obtain a public performance license and pay you royalties. This applies whether the song is performed live or played on radio, television, over the internet or on a music streaming service. Display the song.
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Post by whitefang on Jan 21, 2020 10:38:12 GMT -5
Aieee.....
Y'alls still overthinking this. I'm not concerned for copyright rules and regulations, just if anyone here ever "wrote" or otherwise "made up" what you thought was an original progression, run, fill or melody and down the road heard some tune you KNOW you've never heard before, but is almost a "carbon copy" of YOUR song, which you at first thought WAS original..... I gave two examples of what happened in my case, and since my songs weren't ever going to be published and recorded, I don't see how telling me what the copyright laws are concerns me. Or is relevant to my original query. Whitefang
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