Post by AlanB on Jul 12, 2014 8:51:53 GMT -5
In September 1998 when the Yahoo prewar blues discussion group was a resource to be reckoned with the following was posted by Görgen Antonsson and, although out of date is still quite informative.
I've just spent two hours listening to and comparing the seven songs predating Sonny Boy Williamson's 1957 "Fattening frogs for snakes" that has the "frogs and snakes" metaphor in its title or lyrics (there might be more of the later ilk that I don't know of, of course).
The oldest I find is Virginia Liston's "I'm sick of fattening frogs for ?snakes" (3 June 1925):
I dressed him all up, though he was no good, ?
he played with all the girl's in the neighborhood. ?
So now I'm tired of fattening frogs for snakes.
This is a rather trite performance, not helped by the reed-organ ?accompaniment. (It has one couplet of some merit, though: "The gals around ?here are just like leeches, / they [tarry?] in your orchard and steal your ?peaches.") In spite of the title, she sings "tired of" throughout. ? Rosetta Crawford's "I'm tired of fattenin' frogs for snakes" (1 Feb ?1939) is another (and better) version of this song.
The song that both Carrie Edwards and Clara Smith recorded in 1932 (CE: ?"Fattening frogs for snakes", 17 Feb, CS: "(I'm tired of) Fattening' frogs ?for snakes", 25 March) is a different song with the refrain:
I done got tired, I mean real tired, ?
of fattening frogs for snakes.
Apart from the title phrase, I can't see this song relating to either the ?earlier or any of the later "Frogs for snakes" songs.
Now we're getting warmer as we come to Bumble Bee Slim's "Fattenin' frogs ?for snakes" (11 July 1935):
You got your breakfast in the morning, your dinner on time. ?
I let you spend my dollar, just like you spend my dime. ?
I'm gettin' tired, baby, fattening frogs for snakes. ?
All these many years, baby, I'm just now seen my mistake.
The Mobile Strugglers' "Fattenin' frogs" (July 1949) is a take on this; ?less coherent, with fewer verses (three, Bumble Bee's had five) and with a ?lyrical change, "Spent my last dollar like you spent my last dime" that is interesting (see below).
Memphis Slim's "I see my great mistake" (30 Oct 1940) is obviously based on the Bumble Bee Slim song, using a variation of the refrain:
You know I'm tired of fattening frogs for snakes. ?
After all these long many years, baby, I just see my great mistake.
All verses, however, are new.
And so we arrive at Sonny Boy Williamson's "Fattening frogs for snakes" (8 ?Feb 1957), which belongs in the same "reworking" category as Memphis Slim's ?song:
It took me a long time to find out my mistake. (2) ?
(Sp.: It sure did, man.) ?
But I bet you my bottom dollar, ?
I'm not fattening no more frogs for snakes.
I found out my downfall back in 1930. ?
(Sp.: I started checkin'!) ?
I found out my downfall from 1930. ?
I'm tellin' all of my friends, ?
I'm not etc.
Here it is 1957, I've got to correct all of my mistakes. ?
Oh man, 1957, I've got etc. ?
I'm tellin' my friends, including my wife, and everybody else, not ?fattening etc.
The refrain as well as "mistake" is found in both Bumble Bee Slim's, the ?Mobile Strugglers', and Memphis Slim's recordings. As the "dollar" ?reference is wanting from Memphis Slim's song, it, IMO, is less likely to ?be Sonny Boy's source of inspiration. ? Now then, which of the others was his source? Hard to say really; Bumble ?Bee Slim was an immensely popular singer during the 1930s, whose records ?were targeted at an African-American audience, whereas Mobile Strugglers ?was recorded by American Music, a label for New Orleans jazz fans targeting ?at their likes. That would make Bumble Bee Slim the most likely candidate. ?But then there's the tempting correspondence between "last dollar" ?(Mobile Strugglers) and "bottom dollar" (Sonny Boy Williamson) ... ? I'll doubt that we'll ever know.
[neither of the two European recordings issued has anything to add except that Sonny Boy apparently continued "checking", settling on his ?downfall starting in 1938 ]
[Thanks to Alan Balfour and Richard Spottswood who made some useful ?suggestions in private correspondence]
I've just spent two hours listening to and comparing the seven songs predating Sonny Boy Williamson's 1957 "Fattening frogs for snakes" that has the "frogs and snakes" metaphor in its title or lyrics (there might be more of the later ilk that I don't know of, of course).
The oldest I find is Virginia Liston's "I'm sick of fattening frogs for ?snakes" (3 June 1925):
I dressed him all up, though he was no good, ?
he played with all the girl's in the neighborhood. ?
So now I'm tired of fattening frogs for snakes.
This is a rather trite performance, not helped by the reed-organ ?accompaniment. (It has one couplet of some merit, though: "The gals around ?here are just like leeches, / they [tarry?] in your orchard and steal your ?peaches.") In spite of the title, she sings "tired of" throughout. ? Rosetta Crawford's "I'm tired of fattenin' frogs for snakes" (1 Feb ?1939) is another (and better) version of this song.
The song that both Carrie Edwards and Clara Smith recorded in 1932 (CE: ?"Fattening frogs for snakes", 17 Feb, CS: "(I'm tired of) Fattening' frogs ?for snakes", 25 March) is a different song with the refrain:
I done got tired, I mean real tired, ?
of fattening frogs for snakes.
Apart from the title phrase, I can't see this song relating to either the ?earlier or any of the later "Frogs for snakes" songs.
Now we're getting warmer as we come to Bumble Bee Slim's "Fattenin' frogs ?for snakes" (11 July 1935):
You got your breakfast in the morning, your dinner on time. ?
I let you spend my dollar, just like you spend my dime. ?
I'm gettin' tired, baby, fattening frogs for snakes. ?
All these many years, baby, I'm just now seen my mistake.
The Mobile Strugglers' "Fattenin' frogs" (July 1949) is a take on this; ?less coherent, with fewer verses (three, Bumble Bee's had five) and with a ?lyrical change, "Spent my last dollar like you spent my last dime" that is interesting (see below).
Memphis Slim's "I see my great mistake" (30 Oct 1940) is obviously based on the Bumble Bee Slim song, using a variation of the refrain:
You know I'm tired of fattening frogs for snakes. ?
After all these long many years, baby, I just see my great mistake.
All verses, however, are new.
And so we arrive at Sonny Boy Williamson's "Fattening frogs for snakes" (8 ?Feb 1957), which belongs in the same "reworking" category as Memphis Slim's ?song:
It took me a long time to find out my mistake. (2) ?
(Sp.: It sure did, man.) ?
But I bet you my bottom dollar, ?
I'm not fattening no more frogs for snakes.
I found out my downfall back in 1930. ?
(Sp.: I started checkin'!) ?
I found out my downfall from 1930. ?
I'm tellin' all of my friends, ?
I'm not etc.
Here it is 1957, I've got to correct all of my mistakes. ?
Oh man, 1957, I've got etc. ?
I'm tellin' my friends, including my wife, and everybody else, not ?fattening etc.
The refrain as well as "mistake" is found in both Bumble Bee Slim's, the ?Mobile Strugglers', and Memphis Slim's recordings. As the "dollar" ?reference is wanting from Memphis Slim's song, it, IMO, is less likely to ?be Sonny Boy's source of inspiration. ? Now then, which of the others was his source? Hard to say really; Bumble ?Bee Slim was an immensely popular singer during the 1930s, whose records ?were targeted at an African-American audience, whereas Mobile Strugglers ?was recorded by American Music, a label for New Orleans jazz fans targeting ?at their likes. That would make Bumble Bee Slim the most likely candidate. ?But then there's the tempting correspondence between "last dollar" ?(Mobile Strugglers) and "bottom dollar" (Sonny Boy Williamson) ... ? I'll doubt that we'll ever know.
[neither of the two European recordings issued has anything to add except that Sonny Boy apparently continued "checking", settling on his ?downfall starting in 1938 ]
[Thanks to Alan Balfour and Richard Spottswood who made some useful ?suggestions in private correspondence]