What the difference between Jazz and Blues?

[Admin]

Just exactly what separates Jazz from Blues. At one time, I felt the Blues were more solo performance, or maybe with acoustic/percussion, while Jazz was simply Blues played with a combo including some brass and woodwinds.

Is that an oversimplification?

[muddylives]

The word "blues" is used in various ways, sometimes as a musical genre itself, sometimes as something that can be played in different musical genres, including jazz. When blues is used to refer to a musical genre distinct from jazz, where one draws the line is a matter of choice. Are T-Bone Walker, Big Joe Turner, Cleanhead Vinson, and Ray Charles blues? Jazz? R&B? If you ask me, they are all of the above.

When we consider the blues in jazz, we are thinking of a particular approach to playing blues that usually favors swing rhythms, enriched harmonies, passing and substitution chords, extensive improvization, etc. On the other hand, BB King's music often features all of the above, but we still usually call it "blues" instead of "jazz," probably because it revolves so much around down home sounding vocals.

Of course, a traditional (New Orleans) jazz approach to the blues is something a bit different still.

[Admin]

Interesting comments Herb and Muddy...

I would have to argue a little with Jazz being "slick and arranged"...what about some of the great improvisations? Are they not spontaneous and played from the "heart"?

And Muddy, your comments are exactly what I am talking about. The distinction between the two genre' is really pretty subjective isn't it? I can see how, at one point in history the two had a distinct separation (New Orleans Jazz vs Delta Blues ?? ) but as the two moved on, say into Chicago, where did the genre separation really occur and how? What defined a Blues club vs Jazz club in Chicago?

[earleg]

The tempos or rhythms tend to be different. The chording and scales tend to be not quite as elaborate
in blues although some exceptions. You generally don't hear multiple ?5 chords in blues main parts.
Be-Bop and Swing tend to be closer to blues. T-bone was kind of there a lot.

[Admin]

May 26, 2013 21:03:09 GMT -5 earleg said:

The tempos or rhythms tend to be different. The chording and scales tend to be not quite as elaborate
in blues although some exceptions. You generally don't hear multiple ?5 chords in blues main parts.
Be-Bop and Swing tend to be closer to blues. T-bone was kind of there a lot.

I think that is true for some jazz, particularly the more modern jazz post bebop. Improvisation seems to demand a higher degree of tonal subtlies. But much of the early jazz seemed very closely aligned to blues. And blues also has sone cool arpeggios. In my humble opinion, at any rate.

[Admin]

OK, in support of Jazz Week (November 10-17, 2014), I'm stickying this question.

Let's discuss just what makes up the musicology of Jazz. Any thoughts?

[minorkey]

Jazz is happy, blues is sad?

[Admin]

We hear that Jazz sprung from the Blues. But did it? Was Jazz not around in the 19th century when the music of the marching bands were played with the African rhythms and syncopation? I believe the Blues and Jazz are related in that they come from the African American community but grew up in parallel, not series. Jazz is more up-tempo, ragtime related, art-form; while Blues are full of the emotions of the day (and night), played with flatted notes to reconcile those emotions as needed.

Just my opinion!

[jmuscara]

There's so much one can say here, isn't there?

I like your "series vs. parallel" thought, Jim. I'm pretty sure that's true. Though it's not truly parallel, as there has been a lot of crossover. Each style borrowed or stole from the other.

Blues tends to be simpler harmonically, and gets it's motion from the rhythm, whereas jazz leans towards being more complex and tends to get its motion from the harmonic changes. For example, a 12-bar blues in Blues usually has three chords in one of a few patterns. A 12-bar blues in Jazz complicates the pattern with many substitutions, usually ii-V patterns to lead to the next chord. However, between the three chord Blues version and the I-don't-know-how-many-chords Jazz version are a number of versions you can have with increasing numbers of substitutions ranging from things like a I-VI-II-V turnaround in the last two bars, a ii-V in the fourth bar, etc. Somewhere along that progression of complexity it goes from Blues to Jazz, but opinions will vary on where.

[Admin]

Good post Joe with a lot of "meat" in that one...

Reminds me of one time when I was playing some song (don't remember just which one but would probably think it's Stormy Weather) and a band member looked over and said, why did you throw that diminished chord in there? I replied, cause it just felt right!

[jmuscara]

That's another trick - making sure the changes work for everyone who is playing! If you get with a bunch of guys you've never played with, and they say, "let's do a blues in A," what kind of blues are they going to do? Are we playing three chords or all of them? Sometimes you have to wait a couple of bars to see where they're going.

[musicman]

I love the title of this thread. Where do you begin to learn about Jazz?

[jmuscara]

Feb 9, 2014 7:54:22 GMT -5 musicman said:

I love the title of this thread. Where do you begin to learn about Jazz?

Good question. I don't know. I just sorta jumped in, starting with jazz other people introduced me to. It's such a broad genre you can get into it more ways than you can count.

[musicman]

I still don't quite have a good grasp of the differences. There seems to be a lot of cross-over between Blues and Jazz, at least from a novice listening to both. And even within what is called "Jazz", there seems to be a lot of differences.

I was in New Orleans recently on business, and of course did the obligatory French Quarter stuff. While there, I frequented "preservation hall". Now just what Jazz are they preserving?

[slapjaw]

Jazz, musical scales that keep climbing.

Blues, musical scales that climb, but stop every so often for a drink...